the game of ends
May. 5th, 2019 10:05 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sidewaysFriend and I completed what will probably be one of our last dual jaunts for a while, and thus did I see Avengers: Endgame.
I did not love it - but I didn't love Infinity War, and I haven't loved each and every one of the other movies, so I can peaceably accept that I am not the audience this movie was truly made for. Overall I thought it did enough clever and enough nostalgic things to be a fitting conclusion to a long and genuinely quite impressive cinematic series. In fact, it felt like a solid enough finale that it's a bit strange knowing there are still MCU movies to come. I could easily see it wrapping up in entirety right there.
The rest of my jumbled impressions exist below the cut. Beware hefty sprinklings of salt.
• I can't believe it's been a billion fucking movies and the team still don't actually act like friends.
• It did feel like a comic book story. Like, that's not a compliment in and of itself - I don't like most of the really big ridiculous mass crossover comic events, because they're big and ridiculous and almost nobody gets proper focus and the plot-lines are just obnoxiously contrived. But the movies are comic adaptations and don't shamefacedly pretend to be anything else, and thus in many ways they truly have captured the spirit of the stories. I can appreciate that, even if the end result isn't always my thing.
• It was amazing how many actors they managed to pull back! The walk back through all the movies was EXTREMELY indulgent and the "let's fix it with ~time travel~" solution felt, well, obnoxiously contrived, but it was mostly a nice touch.
• Bomb-ass final fight scene. They did get a grin out of me with the fifteen seconds of girl squad power walk.
• Kind of thought Captain Marvel would have more to do though? Meh.
• Ronin cameo: nice. Clint's haircut as Ronin: oh ym god.
• I honestly thought Clint and Nat's struggle to sacrifice themselves would end with it turning out that sacrificing yourself willingly would circumvent the death clause but nnnnope, she's dead forever I guess. Props for not taking the cheap cheat, I suppose, but oof. A harsh ending to a partnership that has survived with surprising strength given it has mostly had to exist between the lines.
• I ate a noisy rice cracker at the wrong moment and missed the first gay character in the MCU :/ Like, he was there, but I accidentally chewed over the important line and wouldn't have known otherwise if I hadn't already heard about the scene.
• I suspect Thor fans would not have had a good time. He's often seemed to be the character that troubles the writers most of the mains - his solo movies are regarded as some of the weaker titles (save Ragnarok, sort of, depending on who you ask) and his personality has flip-flopped around wildly depending on who's in charge. It's made for a confusing end to a confusing arc, in which he sort of learns about the responsibility of authority but then also sort of decides he has to be himself and himself isn't a leader except he still is, maybe. Also "sad mood-swinging alcoholic" isn't really a great punchline to a situation that, lbr, only occurred because the script said it had to, so having that repeatedly played for laughs was mostly an awkward chuckle zone.
• I actually think I laughed more often during Infinity War, which is. Odd.
• Speaking of responsibility... as a Peter Parker fan I continue to make faces. My list of grievances is long, so here's the short version: they are digging deeper and deeper into the hole of rendering one of my all-time favourite characters as Generic Chipper Teen Hero feat. Spider Powers, and so help me god I have never been particularly sold on the Tony Stark surrogate dad schtick so every time the movies go out of their way to throw it at me I have an emotional response more appropriate to being hit in the face with a cold, wet towel. This is one area where they have critically failed to capture the spirit of the comics and the character, and from the looks of Far From Home it ain't turning around any time soon. I am quietly suffering under a tidal wave of cinnamon roll memes.
• I also didn't quite manage to have the, um, proper reaction to the most emotional moments somewhat, but my friend was sniffling loudly enough for both of us as Tony gracefully withered off into the great beyond. I did get at least partway to misty at the hologram doing the "love you 3000" to Morgan, because my weakest point is parents loving the hell out of their kids.
• Black Panther was pretty rad.
• Yay for Steve being happy I guess but that seems like a dick move to pull on Bucky and every single one of his modern day friends and, like, Peggy's original timeline husband. I still went d'aww at them FINALLY getting their dance.
• And I did like that Sam got the shield >:) Hell yeah.
• How DOES time travel work in this movie? I have no fucking idea.
I did not love it - but I didn't love Infinity War, and I haven't loved each and every one of the other movies, so I can peaceably accept that I am not the audience this movie was truly made for. Overall I thought it did enough clever and enough nostalgic things to be a fitting conclusion to a long and genuinely quite impressive cinematic series. In fact, it felt like a solid enough finale that it's a bit strange knowing there are still MCU movies to come. I could easily see it wrapping up in entirety right there.
The rest of my jumbled impressions exist below the cut. Beware hefty sprinklings of salt.
• I can't believe it's been a billion fucking movies and the team still don't actually act like friends.
• It did feel like a comic book story. Like, that's not a compliment in and of itself - I don't like most of the really big ridiculous mass crossover comic events, because they're big and ridiculous and almost nobody gets proper focus and the plot-lines are just obnoxiously contrived. But the movies are comic adaptations and don't shamefacedly pretend to be anything else, and thus in many ways they truly have captured the spirit of the stories. I can appreciate that, even if the end result isn't always my thing.
• It was amazing how many actors they managed to pull back! The walk back through all the movies was EXTREMELY indulgent and the "let's fix it with ~time travel~" solution felt, well, obnoxiously contrived, but it was mostly a nice touch.
• Bomb-ass final fight scene. They did get a grin out of me with the fifteen seconds of girl squad power walk.
• Kind of thought Captain Marvel would have more to do though? Meh.
• Ronin cameo: nice. Clint's haircut as Ronin: oh ym god.
• I honestly thought Clint and Nat's struggle to sacrifice themselves would end with it turning out that sacrificing yourself willingly would circumvent the death clause but nnnnope, she's dead forever I guess. Props for not taking the cheap cheat, I suppose, but oof. A harsh ending to a partnership that has survived with surprising strength given it has mostly had to exist between the lines.
• I ate a noisy rice cracker at the wrong moment and missed the first gay character in the MCU :/ Like, he was there, but I accidentally chewed over the important line and wouldn't have known otherwise if I hadn't already heard about the scene.
• I suspect Thor fans would not have had a good time. He's often seemed to be the character that troubles the writers most of the mains - his solo movies are regarded as some of the weaker titles (save Ragnarok, sort of, depending on who you ask) and his personality has flip-flopped around wildly depending on who's in charge. It's made for a confusing end to a confusing arc, in which he sort of learns about the responsibility of authority but then also sort of decides he has to be himself and himself isn't a leader except he still is, maybe. Also "sad mood-swinging alcoholic" isn't really a great punchline to a situation that, lbr, only occurred because the script said it had to, so having that repeatedly played for laughs was mostly an awkward chuckle zone.
• I actually think I laughed more often during Infinity War, which is. Odd.
• Speaking of responsibility... as a Peter Parker fan I continue to make faces. My list of grievances is long, so here's the short version: they are digging deeper and deeper into the hole of rendering one of my all-time favourite characters as Generic Chipper Teen Hero feat. Spider Powers, and so help me god I have never been particularly sold on the Tony Stark surrogate dad schtick so every time the movies go out of their way to throw it at me I have an emotional response more appropriate to being hit in the face with a cold, wet towel. This is one area where they have critically failed to capture the spirit of the comics and the character, and from the looks of Far From Home it ain't turning around any time soon. I am quietly suffering under a tidal wave of cinnamon roll memes.
• I also didn't quite manage to have the, um, proper reaction to the most emotional moments somewhat, but my friend was sniffling loudly enough for both of us as Tony gracefully withered off into the great beyond. I did get at least partway to misty at the hologram doing the "love you 3000" to Morgan, because my weakest point is parents loving the hell out of their kids.
• Black Panther was pretty rad.
• Yay for Steve being happy I guess but that seems like a dick move to pull on Bucky and every single one of his modern day friends and, like, Peggy's original timeline husband. I still went d'aww at them FINALLY getting their dance.
• And I did like that Sam got the shield >:) Hell yeah.
• How DOES time travel work in this movie? I have no fucking idea.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-05 04:16 pm (UTC)Your points re: Peter Parker are well taken. I bounced off the latest live action iteration. (but my favorite non animated peter parker is tobey maguire so take what I say with a grain of salt. :P) And Tony as surrogate dad doesn't do it for me either, though let's be frank, Iron Man and I don't mix so that was never going to work!
no subject
Date: 2019-05-06 12:53 am (UTC)The MCU take on Spider-Man is tricky because... look, I'll never argue that anyone is "wrong" for liking it best, especially if it is the first or most prominent example of Spider-Man someone's seen. I unironically like the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie; I got no high ground here. What clicks best with people is subjective, and MCU Peter Parker is a cute, sweet-natured, likeable kid who is easy to root for.
He's just... not Peter Parker, lol. To an increasingly baffling degree. As someone who already knew and liked Peter Parker, it's weird sitting through an iteration that doesn't just swap around a few superficial pieces, as inevitably happens with an adaptation, but has steadily stripped away almost everything that makes the character that character and not Someone Else Entirely. MCU Peter has spider powers with which he occasionally fights crime and lives with his aunt - but there's almost nothing of the first teen hero to not be a sidekick in him. None of the independence and sharp tongue, the barest shades of the guilt and the responsibility and the heavy Jewish coding foundationally embedded in the moral themes (a sin is a missed opportunity to act humanly), little of the struggle to balance the stresses of a normal, lower middle class life against this secret identity and personal mission. None of the secret identity, in fact, because even in the middle of Endgame he was whipping off his mask and giving out his first name to BASICALLY EVERYONE.
And I am grinding my teeth into SAD NUBS at being prompted to feel sad about Peter losing his ~father figure~ by a film series that hasn't even mentioned the existence of Peter's uncle. You literally would not know that he'd ever HAD an uncle if it wasn't such a pop culture aspect of the story. Peter dies for five years and do we get to see what that did to May? No! It's all about Tony! Ahhhh!!
...anyway. My list of grievances is long. Not least because if they wanted to tell a story about a spider-themed, sweet-natured young boy who struggles with legacy as a major part of his superhero theme and has a history of having to prove himself in a world filled with established heroes? Miles Morales was right fuckin' there.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-06 01:09 pm (UTC)I have :: cough :: strong feelings about Iron Man. It's one reason I've never gotten into the The Avengers as a team. I've enjoyed the occasional side movie (Black Panther and Ragnarok for sure; Ms Marvel to a lesser extent), and watched the occasional one on the plane because it was there (Dr Strange, Captain America). I think the latest Spider Man was playing at a family event, and I got bored and wandered off because, as you said so eloquently, who is that Peter Parker? I'll stick with Miles and Into the Spiderverse, thank you. (Though that movie, thinking about your comments above, also tilts toward wrapping up his story in a nice, shiny bow. At the end, he's - already - got a support system in place and is buoyed rather than burdened by his power/responsibility.)
I haven't watched near enough MCU movies to answer this question, but I wonder if what you mention above is a result of i) too many characters to give all of them the depth they deserve and/or ii) reluctance to make their dilemmas internal/psychological and not primarily external/Macguffin driven. I see this so much in shows with ensemble casts; they start with potential and as the episodes and seasons pass, the plot drives them rather than vice versa.
Then there's the tendency in pop culture offerings, esp. ones with teens, to make everyone "middle class" which in reality translates into upper middle class. It used to be different, but at this point it's been years if not decades.
Great discussion!
no subject
Date: 2019-05-07 10:24 am (UTC)Into the Spiderverse was such a gem! And that's the other reason I, for the most part, just stew in my own time - it's not as though there is any shortage of quality Peter Parker content. I think it's undeniably sad that Marvel squandered an opportunity to use someone like Miles Morales or Riri Williams, who would fit the narrative they want to tell without huge character adjustment, but it's not as though decades of PP content has been snapped out of existence by the existence of the MCU. ...Mostly. Searching Tumblr tags is a dreadful past-time anyway.
That's a good point about the nature of the dilemmas! It could in turn be attributed somewhat to the wide variety and turnover of writers and other creators? Not to mention the amount of time between the very first MCU flick and where we stand now. If the choice comes down to "what makes sense for the individual character" and "what enables the plot of our giant ensemble movie to progress at least somewhat logically, and also carries the most mass market appeal", characterisation seems to lose out every time - the plot drives them, as you say.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-07 10:40 pm (UTC)I can't speak for all Thor fans, but I know I wasn't happy. His breakdown in this film was treated as a joke, His fight scenes were treated as a joke. Even his emotions about seeing this mother again were treated as a joke. It got...very old. It was frustrating and I just wanted to know so badly why it felt like I was the only one upset. Everyone I spoke to loved how "Funny" he was. And I was slowly dying inside the entire movie, because after Tony, Thor is my favorite character in the MCU. He didn't even really use his OWN HAMMER. Why bring it back if you were only going to give it to Cap!!??
I also get how you feel about Peter. I'm torn on it, too. Like, I love the Peter & Tony thing on a relationship level, but yeah. It does sort of change his entire character. My favorite thing about Spider-Man is that no one knows who he is, so he spends all his time balancing Peter & Spider-Man (people who love Peter hate Spider-Man and vice versa). So to have so many people in on the secret and such a great support network, it takes a lot of that away. XD
But on the other hand, I really like the relationship between Mr. Stark and Peter and well. I've checked them off as an AU version of the characters. Lol.
Toby Maguire is the only live action Spider-Man for me, anyway. XD
Also Thank You for pointing out the Steve thing. Lol. I thought much the same. "Stop running away from everyone who cares about you, Steve. PEGGY MOVED ON."
no subject
Date: 2019-05-09 12:41 pm (UTC)To try to keep my complaint really short, it's that so much attention was paid (by the movies) to a character type that I don't care for. I used to really enjoy the kind of characters that RDJ plays, but not so much anymore, and Iron Man is the most extreme example of this type. Even if he does evolve and all that.
Oh, and in case you haven't seen this linked around, a piece on Marvel and movies as content: https://www.rogerebert.com/mzs/avengers-mcu-and-the-content-endgame
no subject
Date: 2019-05-14 10:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-05-14 11:04 am (UTC)Yeah, Thor was 90% a gag character just about, and who wants that for their fave :( Sorry you had to sit through it. A friend of mine was very annoyed about the hammer thing, especially since Ragnarok had been all about showing he didn't need it to know his worth! The lightning was on the inside the whole time!
In a different set of circumstances I would probably eat the Peter and Tony dynamic up with a spoon, because I am all about cynical mentors developing soft spots for earnest young mentees. It's cute and I completely get why people love it. It's just such a weird choice for THIS particular character - and I really don't like how it pushes Aunt May and Uncle Ben to the side either.
PEGGY MOVED ON, GODDAMN IT. Cap got fridged for her character development and she had a perfectly badass life without him. Bucky, on the other hand, has barely even been around free of aggressive brainwashing? Why are you ditching your bff Steve. Why is this a good and responsible choice.
no subject
Date: 2019-05-15 03:33 am (UTC)Yes! I miss his overpowered lightning. That was one of the few really good things to come out of Ragnarok. o_o (But if he's going to get his hammer back, he should be the one using it all the same.)
Personally the super young Aunt May bugs me way, way more than the Tony stuff. I remember reading why they did that in nose, but it still bothers me. It still feels like a reason to write in a hot aunt instead of portraying the character of Aunt May as she is. She's supposed to be elderly and I can easily picture someone that old raising a teenager in place of a parent if they can't be there for whatever reason. They didn't need to change Aunt May's age for the story.
Which is probably why I focus on the Tony stuff. Lol. I don't like writing May out of the picture nine out of ten times, but in this particular case...I can live with it. Plus I'm a sucker for older cranky mentors and their upbeat partners (Batman Beyond, Tron: Uprising...the list goes on).
And, yes. Peggy moved on. I agree 100 percent. Sam and Bucky are right there.